PDF files produced with Atlantis: Problem with hyperlinks

[Moonlight]

At least after a first test it seems to me that hyperlinks do not always work correctly after having saved a document (format .rtf or .doc) as PDF with the new version 5 of Atlantis:

More specifically (always referring to hyperlinks within the same file):
- When using the PDF-XChange Editor to view the produced file and clicking on a hyperlink, the cursor goes reliably to the place (within the file) where it should (the target).
- But with SumatraPDF this does not happen: The cursor goes to some place in the environment of the target but not at all precisely to the target.

It must have definitely to do with the way the PDF file is created. Because all works fine in SumatraPDF too when the PDF file of the same document is created in another way, i.e. not with Atlantis but for example with an online service (like go4convert.com).

But apart from this: The quality of the produced PDF files is excellent and the speed of creating them is amazing.

[admin]

I just ran a portable copy of SumatraPDF. The hyperlinks work as intended.

Did you generate that PDF file using version 5.0.0.0 or 5.0.0.1 of Atlantis? Version 5.0.0.1 includes a hot fix regarding decimal separators in PDFs for systems where the default decimal separator is a comma, not a period.

[Moonlight]

I used version 5.0.0.1.

I will try again with other files and possibly other PDF-viewers when I have time.

[admin]

Can you post a sample MS Word document that when converted to PDF with Atlantis does not function correctly in SumatraPDF?

[Moonlight]

In the attachment you can find a MS Word document (.doc) and the PDF I created from it with Atlantis.

I used two chapters of the Atlantis Help, removed the pictures, original hyperlinks etc. and created as test four hyperlinks in my MS Word document. You see them immediately at the beginning of the document. For better visibility I have written the targets in bold letters. So you can recognize at first sight if the links work.

The result is:

- In the doc-file all four hyperlinks work fine (either opening the document in MS Word itself or in Atlantis).

- In the PDF-file all hyperlinks work fine too when viewing it with the PDF-XChange Editor.

- Viewing the PDF-file with Sumatra (portable, version 3.5.2, 64 bit), when clicking on the hyperlinks they "miss" their target (concerning the first link there is no reaction at all, obviously because link and target are too close to each other).

[Moonlight]

And here as comparison the PDF-file created from the same doc-file with an online service (https://go4convert.com/).

All hyperlinks work fine with SumatraPDF too.

[admin]

Thanks for the files.

After comparing the links in the two PDFs, I think I can suggest an explanation.

In both PDFs, the following syntax is used for hyperlink destinations:

[page /XYZ left top zoom]

Unlike go4convert, Atlantis specifies “null” for “left” meaning that the PDF reader does not need to scroll its window in horizontal direction when the person clicks the link. This seems to confuse SumatraPDF. Here is an excerpt from the PDF specification:

dest_syntax.png (30.95 KiB) Viewed 224 times

There is nothing wrong with the links generated by Atlantis. This seems to be an issue with SumatraPDF (incomplete implementation of the Destination syntax).

[Moonlight]

Thanks for investigating the matter and for the explanations although these are no good news. It means that for me the new feature is to a large extent useless because my preferred pdf-viewer is Sumatra.

[admin]

SumatraPDF seems to be the only PDF reader that does not support null values within the link (annotation) destinations. If you care about this PDF reader, you can report the issue to its developers. I am sure it is very easy to fix.

[Moonlight]

It is too complicated for me to report such specific issues to Sumatra. Perhaps some users of Atlantis version 5 and SumatraPDF will do it some day.

But fact is that it is a peculiarity not only connected with SumatraPDF but also with the way in which Atlantis creates its PDF files. In the last half hour I tried a couple of other online converters (using the same doc file) and all of them produced a PDF-file where the hyperlinks work in SumatraPDF without problem.

[admin]

This is a SumatraPDF-specific issue. This PDF reader does not completely follow the PDF specification regarding annotation destinations.

[Moonlight]

This is a SumatraPDF-specific issue.

Maybe. But at any rate SumatraPDF is not the only PDF-reader with this problem. I just tested it with two others:

- With "Foxit PDF Reader" indeed the hyperlinks work fine.
- With "PDF24 Reader" (part of "PDF24 Creator") (https://tools.pdf24.org/en/creator) there is the same problem as with SumatraPDF.

[Robert]

A pre-release version of SumatraPDF is available from https://www.sumatrapdfreader.org/prerelease
It displays correctly the PDFs exported from Atlantis.
HTH
Robert

[admin]

But at any rate SumatraPDF is not the only PDF-reader with this problem.

As I tried to explain, Atlantis generates proper link (annotation) destinations according to the PDF specification.

[Moonlight]

A pre-release version of SumatraPDF is available from https://www.sumatrapdfreader.org/prerelease
It displays correctly the PDFs exported from Atlantis.

Indeed. Hyperlinks work perfectly with this pre-release.

Many thanks for this information.

[rstroud]

A comment and a couple of questions slightly related to the original problem.

First, I intend to use the Atlantis "Save as PDF" as much as I can. Atlantis is truly a wonderful application.

My questions:
1. What is so special about Sumatra PDF (which is free) that you want to use it preferentially? This is not a snarky question. I really want to know.

You also mentioned PDF-XChange (not free in its professional version), which I know is a fantastic application. I have used a paid version of it for years. My only objection to PDF-XChange is that it has "versions" with different capabilities, and then it has some PDF Tools. I wish that the company would offer a free version with some limitations but then have ONLY ONE paid version. I am never sure exactly what I have.

So if you have PDF-XChange, why are you using Sumatra?

2. And then there is the .doc format. Why in the world are you using .doc format? It stopped being the default proprietary format for Microsoft Word EIGHTEEN years ago. And it was wise to go to .docx as a replacement. I am unaware of any good reason to use .doc format anymore.

[Moonlight]

1. What is so special about Sumatra PDF (which is free) that you want to use it preferentially?
[...]
So if you have PDF-XChange, why are you using Sumatra?

Because of one reason: Sumatra is extremly quick and comfortable when searching within a file. I have some quite big documents and nevertheless the search result is usually on the screen even before I stop typing the search term. - PDF-XChange Editor is not bad too in this respect, but Sumatra is better (according to my experience).

(Note: I refer to the current official version of Sumatra. The pre-release for the next one resolves the issue with the hyperlinks but search speed has become worse, especially as at the moment obviously there is no "search-as-you-type". Hopefully this will still change.)

My only objection to PDF-XChange is that it has "versions" with different capabilities, and then it has some PDF Tools. I wish that the company would offer a free version with some limitations but then have ONLY ONE paid version. I am never sure exactly what I have.

I think this is better now than it was in the past. Here you have a comparison chart (paid version in the first column vs. free version in the fourth):
https://www.pdf-xchange.com/pdf-xchange ... ison-chart

Why in the world are you using .doc format? It stopped being the default proprietary format for Microsoft Word EIGHTEEN years ago. And it was wise to go to .docx as a replacement. I am unaware of any good reason to use .doc format anymore.

It's the other way round for me: I never saw a good reason to drop .doc format and my old MS Word. (The security argument pays no role for me as I use exclusively documents produced by myself.) I did not like newer versions of MS Office because of their user interface, their price etc. Other word processors did not convince me as well.
The only program that can be a worthy replacement is Atlantis. And it will be sometime in the near future. I already gradually transfer tasks from MS Word to Atlantis.

[Robert]

SumatraPDF is buggy in many ways and feature-poor. SumatraPDF launch and native search might be fast, but Microsoft Edge can also natively display PDF files superfast. And the Edge PDF search is equally superfast. Why not use Microsoft Edge to read your PDFs? Microsoft Edge has tons of features that put SumatraPDF to shame. You’ll find a detailed presentation of the PDF reader in Microsoft Edge at PDF reader in Microsoft Edge.
HTH
Robert

[Moonlight]

Why not use Microsoft Edge to read your PDFs?

As it happened, just a few days ago I uninstalled Microsoft Edge from my computer. Simply because I never used it. (My main browser is Firefox.) To maintain a whole browser only because of a PDF Reader would be no option for me.

SumatraPDF is buggy in many ways and feature-poor.

Buggy? Concerning the hyperlinks in certain PDF files: yes. I have learned it now here in this topic. And another detail is a little bit annoying (for my needs), concerning the way it deals with spaces between letters when performing a search. Otherwise I had no problems with Sumatra until now.
Feature-poor? Yes, surely. But I do not need much more features. For the page cropping I use the PDF-XChange Editor (as described in the other topic) and when I have to fill out a PDF form from time to time, I do the same.

[Robert]

Then why not use Firefox to read your PDFs? Firefox launch and native PDF search is superfast.
Note that SumatraPDF in a maximized main window has problems displaying the page breaks of either “Atlantis-Test-cropped.pdf” or “Atlantis-Test-go4-cropped.pdf” if you choose “Fit Page” as the zoom value. The page width on either side of the page breaks is different, grossly exaggerated with some of the pages.