Margins + Sections = problems

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SirVince
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Margins + Sections = problems

Post by SirVince »

So . . .

I have a document in RTF. It is comprised of many chapters. Each chapter is its own section - each created with "Section Break: next page" command. (I verified, just in case I had made a mistake.)

SOME of these sections I wish to have *different margins*

It worked, then it didn't.

Sections 2 and 9 work fine; that is: I am able to apply different margins to those two sections - and ONLY those two sections - with normal margins resuming after.

Meaning: section 1, 3-8, 10-15 have 1" margins, sections 2 and 9 have 1.5" margins.

(essentially I'm attempting to have one type of margin for the chapters of a book, and a different type of margin for a handful of "interludes")

PROBLEM: section 16 (the third "interlude") has 1.5" margins, but then Atlantis applies this to section 17 (which it should not) and EVERY SECTION FOLLOWING!

IN FACT it is even stranger: I can re-instate the proper margins and see them; I can print them (using a PDF printer) but if I save the document and reopen it, I find Atlantis has **reformatted** EVERY SECTION from 16 onward.

Stranger still: It worked FINE until two days ago.

What I did 2 days ago was move a chapter from after an interlude, to before an interlude. This, apparently, broke the document, broke the program, and darn near broke my spirit!

Has anyone seen this? I can find nothing in "reveal codes" or "reveal symbols" that is different to this particular section that might explain this extremely frustrating behaviour...

And help appreciated!

Thanks in advance,
SirV
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Post by admin »

Please email your document file to support@atlantiswordprocessor.com. Please also provide us with the step-by-step instructions to reproduce the problem.
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Post by admin »

What if you delete all the sections but #15, #16, and #17? Can the behavior be reproduced on that shorter version of your document?
rstroud
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Sections and margins

Post by rstroud »

I am offering a comment, though it does not explain why this is happening (I think I know, however, in an intuitive sense).

Would it not just be simpler to set the margins for each section? I do not think that SirVince was doing this. I think he was just setting them for certain sections, but when he moved one, it messed up the "whole document" function.

Anyway, I took a document just now and broke it into three sections (next page type).

I set the margins for each of the three. I saved the document. Everything was fine when I reopened the document.

It was not a big test, but I think that setting the margins for each section may solve the problem.

Did I misunderstand something?
rstroud
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Edit to add

Post by rstroud »

I moved a section with changed margins to the start of the document, saved, and reopened. Everything was fine.
SirVince
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Post by SirVince »

admin wrote:What if you delete all the sections but #15, #16, and #17? Can the behavior be reproduced on that shorter version of your document?
This I haven't tried. I *really* don't want to have and retype everything from blank . . .

Because, as you may suspect, if I "cut" then save, then reopen, then "paste" the problem reoccurs.
SirVince
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Re: Sections and margins

Post by SirVince »

rstroud wrote:I am offering a comment, though it does not explain why this is happening (I think I know, however, in an intuitive sense).

Would it not just be simpler to set the margins for each section?
This I did. I essentially tried these:

- changing only ONE section between others;
- re-doing EVERY section one at a time;
- reformating the entire document, then changing ONLY those section I want to be different;
- doing the reverse;

It *does* in fact work properly. I can see it, and I can print it to PDF.

BUT . . .

Soon as I reload the document, it has formated it right back to what *it* wants. And I can see nothing in the "reveal code" or "show symbols" to indicate exactly what command is working in the background.

***

By the by, Atlantis also does something else that drives me utterly insane, which is: if I use the "bullet" symbol (CTRL+SHIFT+.) it generates a bullet point list.

In Atlantis' defence, ALL word processors do this.

AND I HATE IT.

It's the designers grubby little fingers; as though they know what I want to do and, let me tell you: THEY DO NOT. All that's needed is a command to enter into bullet list mode that is not automatic.

It's so bad Atlantis will begin to format my lines of text starting from the middle of the page (as though it was making two columns of text, like you see in a bible or almanach) and NOTHING i do will "unstick" the feature.

I have to retype the text, then erase that section. Fortunately, this happens on very short paragraphs, in another document. But it is infuriating behaviour. STOP TRYING TO PREDICT what I type.

It's really that simple.

/end rant. Back to your regularly scheduled program.
Robert
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Post by Robert »

I *really* don't want to have and retype everything from blank . . .
You can perfectly well carry out tests on a copy of your original document (File | Save Special… > Save Copy As…) You can also keep a backup copy of it (File | Save Special… > Save to Backups).
if I use the "bullet" symbol (CTRL+SHIFT+.) it generates a bullet point list. In Atlantis' defence, ALL word processors do this.
In all word processors, bulleted or numbered lists are automatic lists. If you don’t like that, you can always right-click the list when it is complete, and choose “Bulleted/Numbered List > Convert to Manual List” from the menu. You could even save such a manual list to your Clip Library, and reinsert it at will. Simply remove all textual entries before backing it up. You’ll have a non-automatic bulleted list at your disposal whenever convenient.
It's so bad Atlantis will begin to format my lines of text starting from the middle of the page (as though it was making two columns of text, like you see in a bible or almanac) and NOTHING I do will "unstick" the feature.
There must be some hidden formatting (as for you) calling for such a behavior. We might be able to help if you took a screen capture of the problem after switching on the Special Symbols mode (Ctrl+Shift+8). A screen capture of the corresponding paragraph and section properties might help too. Even more helpful would be a sample document illustrating these problems.

If you really want us to help…
rstroud
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More on sections

Post by rstroud »

I am just going to say that I did the following, and it worked perfectly after I closed Atlantis and reopened the file.

First turn on the Special Symbols, so that you can see the pilcrow (paragraph) symbol and the Section Break symbol.

I ran a test on a long document with FIVE sections.

I changed the left margin for each section after the first.

At the end of the final paragraph in every section, I added a SECTION BREAK of the NEXT PAGE type.

And this may be important: I added a SECTION BREAK even for the LAST section in the document. I inserted that final section break at the end of the paragraph, just as I had done with the others. Every section had a Section Break at the end.

Then I scrambled the sections as follows:

I selected the text in a section, and I made sure to INCLUDE the section break at the end of that specific section. I cut the section (Ctrl-X). Do not include the Section Break prior to a section; only include the one at the end.

Then I inserted the cut section immediately before the TEXT of another section. I was careful to make sure that I inserted cut section AFTER the section break of any preceding section.

That worked perfectly.

I have been working with this kind of thing for about 40 years, and I honestly think that you are doing something wrong. It may have to do with how you are handling the Section Break symbol. I do not know for sure, because I do not know how the code is stored for the stuff in the section.

NOTE: Whether it makes any difference, I do not know, but I always work with .docx files, not with .rtf. I have found no problems with .docx in Atlantis, and I produce some very complicated documents. If all else fails, you might just try saving as .docx and then try to rearrange your sections.

Please let us know if you have any success.
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Post by admin »

SirVince wrote:
admin wrote:What if you delete all the sections but #15, #16, and #17? Can the behavior be reproduced on that shorter version of your document?
This I haven't tried. I *really* don't want to have and retype everything from blank . . .

Because, as you may suspect, if I "cut" then save, then reopen, then "paste" the problem reoccurs.
You do not need to overwrite your original document file. You can save a test version of your document under a different filename or to a different location.

Could you email your document file to support@atlantiswordprocessor ?
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Re: Sections and margins

Post by admin »

SirVince wrote:By the by, Atlantis also does something else that drives me utterly insane, which is: if I use the "bullet" symbol (CTRL+SHIFT+.) it generates a bullet point list.
You can uncheck the "Replace manual bulleting or numbering with automatic" box in the "Tools | AutoCorrect Options..." dialog of Atlantis.
SirVince
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Re: More on sections

Post by SirVince »

rstroud wrote:... I honestly think that you are doing something wrong
Oh there is no doubt of that whatsoever. I just cannot see -at all- what it could be that I am doing wrong. I'll try to replicate your steps on my document and see.
rstroud wrote:NOTE: Whether it makes any difference, I do not know, but I always work with .docx files, not with .rtf
Could be. I only use .rtf

And I'm on Vista x64 (if that makes any diff)

Many thanks indeed! More later . . .
Robert
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Post by Robert »

If you really want help, you should send your document or a sample document exemplifying the same problem to support@AtlantisWordProcessor.com. With clear and detailed explanations on how to reproduce the problem.
Alternatively, you could post a new message on this forum and attach such a document to your post.
Otherwise, we’ll all be going round and round in circles trying to solve a riddle wrapped in an enigma.
SirVince
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Post by SirVince »

I do appreciate all the help!

But yes, really, it would be much simpler for me to forward the document to the "proper authorities."

All you folks here have been great!
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