I have a rather large document file on which I have been working for a very long time. Every time I close the document for any reason and reopen it in Atlantis there has been lines added or deleted between paragraphs really messing up the print format. I communicated with Atlantis Support but the person (no name given) I was "communicating" with apparently never understood what the problem was. Finally that person just ignored my emails and would not answer. I still have the problem and it is really aggravating to have to go through the document every time I open it and correct all of these errors.
Anyone else have this problem or this extremely poor service from Atlantis Support?
Adding/deleting lines when opening document
How on earth can you say that I did not provide you with instructions to reproduce the problem?
I sent email after email explaining the problem, how and when it happened, and also took snippets of the document containing the problem but your "support" person did not seem to understand what I was saying or how to look at the images I sent.
If this is the best you can do I will be looking for a different word processor with which to do my work!
I sent email after email explaining the problem, how and when it happened, and also took snippets of the document containing the problem but your "support" person did not seem to understand what I was saying or how to look at the images I sent.
If this is the best you can do I will be looking for a different word processor with which to do my work!
Can you not read? I NEVER said that Atlantis added or deleted paragraphs. What I said was that there were lines added and/or removed each time I closed and reopened the document. I am right now in the process of fixing that same problem since I just reopened the document for editing.
Are you the same person I was attempting to communicate with in Support? If so, please go away and put a competent person on this site who can read and understand plain English!
Are you the same person I was attempting to communicate with in Support? If so, please go away and put a competent person on this site who can read and understand plain English!
For all you Atlantis users out there let this be a warning to you. If you have a problem with the program Atlantis support is worthoess and you will just have to live with the problem.
I am now in the process of looking for a word processor that works correctly and has some real support behind it. This one certainly doesn't!
I am now in the process of looking for a word processor that works correctly and has some real support behind it. This one certainly doesn't!
Atlantis support
Teacher, I have been using Atlantis for many years, and I have dealt with Atlantis Support many times.
I strongly disagree with your assessment of Atlantis and the support that the Atlantis team offers.
I have reported issues many times, and Atlantis has addressed these issues and corrected them.
I am going to offer a couple of comments to you. Considering your hostile attitude, I know that you are unlikely to be receptive to advice, but I will give it anyway.
First, if a problem cannot be replicated, no programmer is likely to be able to help. Therefore, let me ask you: Did you send the entire manuscript to Atlantis, so that someone could add some text, close the file, and open it again? Unless you do that, the problem may not be reproducible.
Second, you talk about a rather large document. How large? You did not say. It has always been my impression that extremely long documents can have problems. Why? Who knows? But it is good to break documents up into chapters or sections. A lot of years ago Microsoft never could get its master document feature for Word to work right. (However, that has probably been resolved by now. I do not know.) What I am saying is that you should never write a long book that is one single document. That is my opinion, anyway.
I am what might be called a computer "power user", and I use or have used Atlantis, Word, WordPerfect, OpenOffice, LibreOffice, and Adobe FrameMaker (desktop publishing). I can tell you that the easiest and most efficient of these programs is Atlantis. The main shortcomings of Atlantis are: no drop caps support, and no "track changes" feature. But neither of these is essential, and if I want them, I will use LibreOffice.
In fact, if you are not happy with Atlantis, and you do not want to invest in Microsoft Word (I would not want to), you ought to try LibreOffice. It is powerful and fun to use, but it is more cumbersome than Atlantis in handling graphics, and it lugs along an ungodly number of idiotic styles that you do not want and that always get in the way. Also, Atlantis is much more straightforward in handling pages sizes for different book formats than LibreOffice is.
So good luck. I hope that you will stick with Atlantis. In the long run, you will know that you made the right decision.
I strongly disagree with your assessment of Atlantis and the support that the Atlantis team offers.
I have reported issues many times, and Atlantis has addressed these issues and corrected them.
I am going to offer a couple of comments to you. Considering your hostile attitude, I know that you are unlikely to be receptive to advice, but I will give it anyway.
First, if a problem cannot be replicated, no programmer is likely to be able to help. Therefore, let me ask you: Did you send the entire manuscript to Atlantis, so that someone could add some text, close the file, and open it again? Unless you do that, the problem may not be reproducible.
Second, you talk about a rather large document. How large? You did not say. It has always been my impression that extremely long documents can have problems. Why? Who knows? But it is good to break documents up into chapters or sections. A lot of years ago Microsoft never could get its master document feature for Word to work right. (However, that has probably been resolved by now. I do not know.) What I am saying is that you should never write a long book that is one single document. That is my opinion, anyway.
I am what might be called a computer "power user", and I use or have used Atlantis, Word, WordPerfect, OpenOffice, LibreOffice, and Adobe FrameMaker (desktop publishing). I can tell you that the easiest and most efficient of these programs is Atlantis. The main shortcomings of Atlantis are: no drop caps support, and no "track changes" feature. But neither of these is essential, and if I want them, I will use LibreOffice.
In fact, if you are not happy with Atlantis, and you do not want to invest in Microsoft Word (I would not want to), you ought to try LibreOffice. It is powerful and fun to use, but it is more cumbersome than Atlantis in handling graphics, and it lugs along an ungodly number of idiotic styles that you do not want and that always get in the way. Also, Atlantis is much more straightforward in handling pages sizes for different book formats than LibreOffice is.
So good luck. I hope that you will stick with Atlantis. In the long run, you will know that you made the right decision.
I appreciate your response. Had you had the experience of rudeness and apparent incompetence with the Atlantis Support that I have had I think you would be a little upset and hostile too. Yes, I did upload the entire document to Atlantis Support. I explained the problem to the support person several times and he/she kept telling me that I was not describing the problem I was having. In that person's response he/she kept telling me this and that about what I had said about the problem that was not anything like I had reported to them. It is very frustrating to say the least. It is like talking to a brick wall and never hearing anything back that makes any sense. The Support person did not even try to replicate the problem by their own admission. He/she just kept asking me to describe it.
I still have the problem and nobody at Atlantis apparently gives a damn about it.
I still have the problem and nobody at Atlantis apparently gives a damn about it.
If lines are added or deleted between paragraphs, are they textual lines or empty paragraphs or empty line breaks?
Are the added or deleted lines located at the start or at the bottom of the document? Are they located within the main document body or are they part of a header or footer?
If the added or deleted lines display as empty lines, are they real lines with paragraph or line breaks, or are they the result of vertical spacing before and after surrounding paragraphs?
Do you edit this document in Draft View, Draft View (wrap to window), or in Print Layout View? And which view is on when you close then reopen this document? Note that Print Preview might also change the overall formatting/look of the document.
Are you using the “Shrink page count” command at any point in the creation of this document?
Is it a RTF or DOC or DOCX document?
Are the added or deleted lines located at the start or at the bottom of the document? Are they located within the main document body or are they part of a header or footer?
If the added or deleted lines display as empty lines, are they real lines with paragraph or line breaks, or are they the result of vertical spacing before and after surrounding paragraphs?
Do you edit this document in Draft View, Draft View (wrap to window), or in Print Layout View? And which view is on when you close then reopen this document? Note that Print Preview might also change the overall formatting/look of the document.
Are you using the “Shrink page count” command at any point in the creation of this document?
Is it a RTF or DOC or DOCX document?
Your document
Teacher ...
If you will send me your document, I will take a look at it and see if I can produce any issues.
I am not offering any guarantees, but I have a lot of experience dealing with software, and I have dabbled with programming for about 25 years. I know what I am doing.
Honestly, I would really like to see your document. It is a challenge.
Of course, send the document as is, in the same format that you have been using (.rtf, .doc, docx, or whatever).
My email:
rolandraystroud@gmail.com
My website, in case you are leery about sending your document to me. The website explains who I am.
http://www.rolandstroud.com
If you will send me your document, I will take a look at it and see if I can produce any issues.
I am not offering any guarantees, but I have a lot of experience dealing with software, and I have dabbled with programming for about 25 years. I know what I am doing.
Honestly, I would really like to see your document. It is a challenge.
Of course, send the document as is, in the same format that you have been using (.rtf, .doc, docx, or whatever).
My email:
rolandraystroud@gmail.com
My website, in case you are leery about sending your document to me. The website explains who I am.
http://www.rolandstroud.com
I really appreciate the offer Roland. I am in the process of fixing the same discussed errors at the moment and when it is finished I will send you the entire document. It has 614 pages and is a new version of scripture that I have been working on for the past 21 years.
If you would like to discuss anything you find my email is buck@considerthis.net
If you would like to discuss anything you find my email is buck@considerthis.net
Robert, Thank you for your interest. This is a 614 DOCX document and it is a new version of scripture which I have been working on for the past 21 years. Blank lines are added or deleted at random throughout the main body of the document when I close and reopen the document. Sometimes just one line is added but in the current episode so far I have found two places where three lines were added. So far it has never deleted a line of text, just blank lines between chapters or books.
I am editing in print layout view. It stays in this view.
No. I do not use the shrink page count. Something I have noticed is that I have several editions of this same document and all of them have a different page count with same page settings and font size. I cannot explain that either.
BTW - The above description of the problem is what I told Atlantis Support too.
I am editing in print layout view. It stays in this view.
No. I do not use the shrink page count. Something I have noticed is that I have several editions of this same document and all of them have a different page count with same page settings and font size. I cannot explain that either.
BTW - The above description of the problem is what I told Atlantis Support too.
You did not say what exactly are these blank lines. Are there any visible characters within these blank lines besides sheer blanks? You might see line or page break characters within these blank lines if you switch on the display of non-printing characters (View | Special Symbols).Blank lines are added or deleted at random throughout the main body of the document when I close and reopen the document… just blank lines between chapters or books
If these blank lines do not contain any visible characters, and they are pure vertical blanks, they might be the result of spacing after the previous textual paragraph and/or spacing before the next textual paragraph.
If these blank lines are added between chapters or books, this means that they are not added at random. Some of your document or section settings must be causing the blank gaps between chapters or books to be automatically adjusted.
Fixed-layout content is something you would expect from a PDF file. But word processors do not output fixed-layout content, they produce reflowable content. The document content is automatically reflowed to fit the page settings and margins that you specify. But it is also reflowed according to the way the “printable margins” are defined by your printer driver. You might want to take a look at the following articles:I have several editions of this same document and all of them have a different page count with same page settings and font size. I cannot explain that either.
Page Layout in Details
Stable Layout on Different Printers
Why does the appearance (or layout) of my document change when I open it on a different machine?
Hey Robert,
The inserted and deleted lines are horizontal but the perceived movement is vertical. There are no visible characters in the inserted lines and of course there would not be in the deleted lines. I looked at the non-printing characters and the only thing I see is the end of line marker at the end of every line. No other characters.
I am using the same printer driver all the time with no swapping between printers. I do make a PDF from the document after I have it all formatted correctly and I use that to print from on a different printer. If my machine drivers and such have not changed, been updated, or etc., why would the layout not remain the same every time I close and reopen the document? The only thing that is changing is the vertical spacing in the document.
From what I see after I reopen the document the lines added and deleted are totally random. I have not kept exact track of where they occur but from constantly having to fix them I do know they are in different places almost every time.
I will be glad to send you the document too if you would like to look at it. If you want to discuss this without having to use the forum my email address is buck@considerthis.net.
The inserted and deleted lines are horizontal but the perceived movement is vertical. There are no visible characters in the inserted lines and of course there would not be in the deleted lines. I looked at the non-printing characters and the only thing I see is the end of line marker at the end of every line. No other characters.
I am using the same printer driver all the time with no swapping between printers. I do make a PDF from the document after I have it all formatted correctly and I use that to print from on a different printer. If my machine drivers and such have not changed, been updated, or etc., why would the layout not remain the same every time I close and reopen the document? The only thing that is changing is the vertical spacing in the document.
From what I see after I reopen the document the lines added and deleted are totally random. I have not kept exact track of where they occur but from constantly having to fix them I do know they are in different places almost every time.
I will be glad to send you the document too if you would like to look at it. If you want to discuss this without having to use the forum my email address is buck@considerthis.net.
Your document
Teacher ...
Thank you for hanging in there and not giving up, and thank you for your email address. I will send you an email in a couple of days, I promise.
I sometimes offer to help people for FREE if I can help them. I will see if I can help. For now, I will just say that I am pretty confident that we can put you onto the right track.
I recently finished helping a minister finish his autobiography, which included text and pictures. For free. Unfortunately, I had to do it in LibreOffice because he was a confounded Mac user. (Most of the major issues that I have had as an editor arose from the fact that the person was using a Mac.) LibreOffice is a powerful and good application, but in my opinion Atlantis is a better choice.
In the meantime (and we can talk about this in emails), chew on a couple of suggestions and questions:
(1) What format are you striving for? Physical book? Ebook? Both? If a book, what size? For example, a common size for trade paperbacks is 6x9-inches, which is almost exactly the same as the C5-Envelope (6.38 x 9.02-inches; included as a page size in Atlantis). Another good size is 5.375 x 8-inches, which you can get by choosing A5 as your page size (A5 is a tad larger but can be trimmed in the printing process).
(2) You really should not write a book as one long document. It works much better to have separate chapters. Just trust me. Much better.
(3) You should use paragraph styles, and these should preferably be consistent across all the chapters. This is not difficult to do. I can help with this.
(4) If you are thinking of a physical book, you should think in terms of a PDF as the final product (the ebook would be a different matter, and Atlantis handles that very well). If need be, you can join the various PDF chapters with software. Or you can try creating one long Atlantis document after you have all your chapters completed. Again, I can help with all these things. The PDF is what a publishing house or "Print on Demand" printer can use to create your physical book.
(5) Graphics of any kind may need some tweaking. I can help with that if you need help.
Just think about all these things, and I will check with you by email in a couple of days.
Thank you for hanging in there and not giving up, and thank you for your email address. I will send you an email in a couple of days, I promise.
I sometimes offer to help people for FREE if I can help them. I will see if I can help. For now, I will just say that I am pretty confident that we can put you onto the right track.
I recently finished helping a minister finish his autobiography, which included text and pictures. For free. Unfortunately, I had to do it in LibreOffice because he was a confounded Mac user. (Most of the major issues that I have had as an editor arose from the fact that the person was using a Mac.) LibreOffice is a powerful and good application, but in my opinion Atlantis is a better choice.
In the meantime (and we can talk about this in emails), chew on a couple of suggestions and questions:
(1) What format are you striving for? Physical book? Ebook? Both? If a book, what size? For example, a common size for trade paperbacks is 6x9-inches, which is almost exactly the same as the C5-Envelope (6.38 x 9.02-inches; included as a page size in Atlantis). Another good size is 5.375 x 8-inches, which you can get by choosing A5 as your page size (A5 is a tad larger but can be trimmed in the printing process).
(2) You really should not write a book as one long document. It works much better to have separate chapters. Just trust me. Much better.
(3) You should use paragraph styles, and these should preferably be consistent across all the chapters. This is not difficult to do. I can help with this.
(4) If you are thinking of a physical book, you should think in terms of a PDF as the final product (the ebook would be a different matter, and Atlantis handles that very well). If need be, you can join the various PDF chapters with software. Or you can try creating one long Atlantis document after you have all your chapters completed. Again, I can help with all these things. The PDF is what a publishing house or "Print on Demand" printer can use to create your physical book.
(5) Graphics of any kind may need some tweaking. I can help with that if you need help.
Just think about all these things, and I will check with you by email in a couple of days.
Hey Roland,
My machine is Windows 10.
I have LibreOffice but I have not tried it yet. I am not a minister but just a plain old country boy who happens to love our Creator and wants to proclaim His name (His REAL name) everywhere I can. I am also a published author (Consider This, A Scriptural Challenge to all Christians).
This document is the version of scripture is titled "The Sacred Scripture of Yahuwah, Restored Names Version" (RNV for short). I have it in PDF format and as an eBook for free download from my web page, www.considerthis.net.
The document I sent you is 8.5 X 11, but I do have it in 5.5 X 8.5 also. The smaller sized book is sort of hard to read because of the smaller fonts needs to keep the physical page count reasonable, so I am going with the larger book.
As I said before I have been working on this translation for over 20 years and just have gotten it to the point where I am willing to print it and start distributing it. I have a long list of people who ahve requested a copy when it is ready.
I also have it on modular form for e-Sword and BibleWorks scripture programs, also available for download free from the web page.
I have an excellent Lexmark printer that I use to print the RNV and all the associated gear like a paper jogger, perfect binding machine, and a book trimmer. I have printed and distributed a few of the copies, but right now I am waiting for my brother in Florida to send me some more covers. Then I will start binding copies in earnest and mailing them around the world to the people who have asked for one.
I would like to talk about your suggestions when you get the chance.
My machine is Windows 10.
I have LibreOffice but I have not tried it yet. I am not a minister but just a plain old country boy who happens to love our Creator and wants to proclaim His name (His REAL name) everywhere I can. I am also a published author (Consider This, A Scriptural Challenge to all Christians).
This document is the version of scripture is titled "The Sacred Scripture of Yahuwah, Restored Names Version" (RNV for short). I have it in PDF format and as an eBook for free download from my web page, www.considerthis.net.
The document I sent you is 8.5 X 11, but I do have it in 5.5 X 8.5 also. The smaller sized book is sort of hard to read because of the smaller fonts needs to keep the physical page count reasonable, so I am going with the larger book.
As I said before I have been working on this translation for over 20 years and just have gotten it to the point where I am willing to print it and start distributing it. I have a long list of people who ahve requested a copy when it is ready.
I also have it on modular form for e-Sword and BibleWorks scripture programs, also available for download free from the web page.
I have an excellent Lexmark printer that I use to print the RNV and all the associated gear like a paper jogger, perfect binding machine, and a book trimmer. I have printed and distributed a few of the copies, but right now I am waiting for my brother in Florida to send me some more covers. Then I will start binding copies in earnest and mailing them around the world to the people who have asked for one.
I would like to talk about your suggestions when you get the chance.
If the added lines only include paragraph end marks (the so-called pilcrow symbol), they are empty paragraphs. These are never automatically added by Atlantis. They are added as you create new (empty) paragraphs by pressing the Enter key or if you paste such empty paragraphs.
Note that these empty paragraphs are usually not visible or noticed unless or until you switch on the display of non-printing characters. So when you close and save an edit in your document, you might very well save one or several of these empty paragraphs without noticing them. But you might become aware of them when you reopen your document.
Please take a look at the following page in the AtlanTips:
Searching for blank paragraphs
HTH
Robert
Note that these empty paragraphs are usually not visible or noticed unless or until you switch on the display of non-printing characters. So when you close and save an edit in your document, you might very well save one or several of these empty paragraphs without noticing them. But you might become aware of them when you reopen your document.
Please take a look at the following page in the AtlanTips:
Searching for blank paragraphs
HTH
Robert
I don't know if the added lines include the pilcrow marks or not. When I looked at the non-printing characters I had already fixed all of the errors.
That article is interesting, but I'm not sure I understand the significance of it.
Apparently I am not supplosed to hit the enter key to put a space between chapters or books. Is that correct?
Also, why would that randomly create extra lines or delete existing lines?
That article is interesting, but I'm not sure I understand the significance of it.
Apparently I am not supplosed to hit the enter key to put a space between chapters or books. Is that correct?
Also, why would that randomly create extra lines or delete existing lines?
If you notice lines that Atlantis is supposed to have added automatically, and you switch on the display of non-printing characters, you surely must be able to tell if these lines include a paragraph end mark (pilcrow symbol) or not. If they do, you have most likely created these extra lines yourself by pressing the Enter key. Atlantis never adds empty paragraphs to documents automatically.
The vertical distance between textual paragraphs is best controlled through the spacing before and after values associated with these paragraphs. In this way, you don’t get unwanted or undesirable blank paragraphs within your document. The best way to assign spacing before and after values to a paragraph is through the paragraph properties of its associated style.
Here is from Creating a well-spaced document:
The vertical distance between textual paragraphs is best controlled through the spacing before and after values associated with these paragraphs. In this way, you don’t get unwanted or undesirable blank paragraphs within your document. The best way to assign spacing before and after values to a paragraph is through the paragraph properties of its associated style.
Here is from Creating a well-spaced document:
So if you’re pressing the spacebar multiple times to indent your text or pressing Enter repeatedly to put a gap between paragraphs, you’re wasting effort, misusing your word processing program and, in all likelihood, creating a document with subtly inconsistent spacing which, in turn, makes reading your document less comfortable.
As I said before, I never looked at the non-printing characters in the document when the errors were there. I looked after I had corrected all of them.
I have attached an image of part of the document showing the pilcrows.
I have attached an image of part of the document showing the pilcrows.
- Attachments
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- Here is what a part of the document looks like.Tell me what is wrong with it.
- pilcrows-1.jpg (70.18 KiB) Viewed 9707 times