New GUI

General comments and questions. Technical support.
Richard Watts
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Post by Richard Watts »

I've been using the new GUI and find it a good improvement (albeit it seems I'm in a minority here).

However, could not having an option to display a smaller icon set solve some of the issues raised? This would shrink the height of the bar, if it were scaled along with the icons, making it more appropriate for smaller displays.
StewCam
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Post by StewCam »

I agree with the comments of patr. The new GUI is an attempt to redefine the ribbon concept, but is not very successful. It doesn't work as well as a tabbed or menu-driven ribbon. There is also a need for some options to enable the user to customize the interface. The flyouts are too slow - they take significantly longer to appear than the ones in Word 2010.

I'm sticking with v3 but am hoping that admin can work his usual magic to address these issues.
wcpeace
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Post by wcpeace »

admin wrote:Thanks for upgrading.

There are no UHD-related changes in recent versions of Atlantis.

The nearest releases of 3.x will most probably include new toolbar-related features. For instance, it is very likely that version 3.0.1 will have the autohide option for toolbars.
All I can say is that 2.x looks correct vs 1.6.6.1. Although not entirely crisp. A little "blurry/fuzzy" which is ok for now.

I fixed Photoshop CS6 by doing what is outlined in this document. It also has an issue with 4k / UHD. App scaling on High DPI displays. Maybe some change in Atlantis 2 (Compilation or dependency related?) made a similar modification - except automatically (w/o need to create an external manifest file)

https://www.danantonielli.com/adobe-app ... plays-fix/

I might have tried this Photoshop fix when I tested Atlantis 2 for the first time many many months ago, I don't remember, but I didn't want to change my configuration at that time, so even if it worked, I didn't go through with it. Ok now to upgrade.

The icons on Atlantis 3.x definitely look much crisper and cleaner on 3.x than 2.x on my display. I'll look forward to whatever upgrade comes next.

Attachment of screen shot of Atlantis 1.6 on HP Envy 15" 4k/UHD and on 2.0.
Attachments
atlantis 2-0 on 4k UHD.jpg
atlantis 2-0 on 4k UHD.jpg (52.01 KiB) Viewed 17363 times
atlantis 1-6 on 4k UHD.jpg
atlantis 1-6 on 4k UHD.jpg (48.32 KiB) Viewed 17364 times
jds
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Post by jds »

I haven't had any reason to visit the forums before, but I registered just so that I could comment on the new interface. If I had been here before I might have seen previous comments and a response from admin ("The new toolbars will not be customizable in the initial release"), and I would not have upgraded to v3.

The old gui looked outdated but it was easy to use and it worked well.

The new icons are great, if very large, but the gui overall is terrible. It takes up far too much room - way more than the ribbon in Word, the sections aren't labelled, and the dropdowns are awkward. Moreover, there's no way to customise it (in light of admin's comment quoted above, I hope that is only temporary).

As another poster said, it is "reminiscent of a ribbon UI -- without its benefits but with most of its detriments." I have several programs that use a ribbon interface and I dislike it intensely - I don't seen any benefits in the ribbon. This new interface in Atlantis seems like a cross between a ribbon and... something else, but what, I'm not sure. It's inefficient and confusing. I never thought I'd say this, but the ribbon in Word is actually easier to use than the new Atlantis gui.

I mainly use Atlantis to convert Word docs to html. Word does an abominable job of doing that, but Atlantis handles it much better. Sadly, using the program just got harder, when a new interface might have been expected to make the user experience better.

Please, at least let us have the option to return to the old toolbars.
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Post by admin »

The new GUI has nothing to do with the Ribbon.

The new toolbars are only marginally taller than the MS Word's Ribbon.

In version 3.0.1, there will the "autohide" option for toolbars:
http://www.atlantiswordprocessor.com/en ... php?t=2127
You could have as much space for your document contents as you wish.

You can always install a previous version:
http://www.atlantiswordprocessor.com/en ... rsions.htm
jds
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Post by jds »

Actually, the new toolbars are way taller than the ribbon in Word. There's nothing marginal about it!

Autohide won't help at all in my opinion because the toolbars will still be just as dysfunctional. Judging by the images in the post you linked to, autohide will make the problem worse, not better. Although I commented in my earlier post about the size of the toolbars, it's not a matter of space for documents that's the problem, it's the way the toolbars work. We need to be able to customise the toolbars, not hide them.

I reinstalled v2 after writing my previous post.
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Post by admin »

Actually, the new toolbars are way taller than the ribbon in Word. There's nothing marginal about it!
It depends on what you call "marginal". Just compared the screenshots of MS Word 2013, Atlantis 3.0, and MS Word 2016. The title bar plus the main menu plus the toolbars of Atlantis 3.0 are 11 pixels taller than the ribbon of MS Word 2013, and 6 pixels taller than the ribbon of MS Word 2016:

Image

I believe it is nothing compared to the vertical resolution of modern desktop screens – only about 1%.

But of course, if you do not like the new version, you can stick with version 2.x. Its setup file will be always available on our site:
http://www.atlantiswordprocessor.com/en ... rsions.htm
patr
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Post by patr »

To admin: You forget to mention that almost everyone using MS Office who actually has to be productive, hates the ribbon. As if you haven't heard that from people a thousand times when they found Atlantis and commented on that very thing. "Ah, finally, a good word processor without the Ribbon!"

If you can't make the new GUI sections wider, or customize which icons go where, it will be nothing but a nuisance to productive people. Then, even then, if you click any visible icon the section will still unfold -- ANNOYING. Even if it would be customizable at some later point in time, it should be conceded that the new GUI is in alpha stage and people should not train to use it in its current form and with its icon placements because it will all change, making their efforts in vain (as well as highly frustrating).

I agree that Atlantis GUI is not like the ribbon: it lacks what is good about the MS ribbon. If you could please explain to us what the merit of the new GUI is, please? What is better or more efficient or accessible faster? I think this may largely be a rhetorical question in that I wonder if you really asked yourself that question while designing it.

Honestly, this should have been (as it is now) in beta stage with public feedback for 6 months from now at the very least. Perhaps, if you are as closed off to the almost unanimous rejection of the new GUI as I think you are, you should consider updating the document filters and other improvements to a fork of Atlantis with the old UI and release them side-by-side, if you won't provide the option to switch between old and new UI within the same program. Because I think it is unfair to exclude the only functional version of Atlantis from actual program improvements and updates. These are my thoughts.
StewCam
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Post by StewCam »

To say that the new interface has nothing to do with the ribbon smacks of pedantry. It is at the very least a ribbon-like thing. The screen shot demonstrates that it only uses a bit more screen real estate than the ribbon in MS Office 2013 or 2016. However, it also highlights that it is less functional than the MS layouts, and has an appearance that is comparatively garish. Like most of the other doubters in this thread, I am an Atlantis fan. I trust that autohide is a stopgap measure, as the new interface really needs a rethink.
jds
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Post by jds »

admin wrote:The title bar plus the main menu plus the toolbars of Atlantis 3.0 are 11 pixels taller than the ribbon of MS Word 2013, and 6 pixels taller than the ribbon of MS Word 2016

I'm using Word 2010. From the top of the window to the bottom of the ribbon measures 139 pixels - considerably less than the 155 pixels your screenshot shows for the Atlantis toolbars. I stand by what I said.

Instead of being pedantic and trying to prove me wrong, perhaps you could spend your time more productively by listening to the comments made here and then working out what to do to make your customers satisfied again. Two more people have made valid criticisms and constructive comments since I posted my critique. I trust you will take those on board.
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Post by admin »

patr wrote:If you could please explain to us what the merit of the new GUI is, please? What is better or more efficient or accessible faster?
I believe that the new GUI is an improvement over the old toolbars in a number of ways:

1. The new GUI is context oriented. There are about 15 context toolbars offered depending on the document selection and other factors. The new context toolbars never reduce the document working space (unlike the "Header & Footer" context toolbar in old Atlantis). The new context toolbars never hide the "standard" (non-context) toolbars/commands (unlike in the MS Word Ribbon UI).

2. All the commands of the new toolbars are grouped into categories out of the box, without any customization. This makes finding a required command easier.

3. If the Atlantis window is wide enough, all the command categories are always in view. You do no need to switch tabs (like in the Ribbon UI) to access a required command.

4. A bigger icon means a more distinctive icon. It is very important when you have hundreds of buttons. At this point, Atlantis has 300+ "iconic" button commands. It is impossible to have tiny distinctive icons for such an amount of commands. This is why many smaller icons on the Word Ribbon are accompanied with text labels.
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Post by admin »

Thanks to everyone for sharing your thoughts. We appreciate your feedback on the new version of Atlantis Word Processor.
patr
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Post by patr »

1. The new GUI is context oriented. There are about 15 context toolbars offered depending on the document selection and other factors. The new context toolbars never reduce the document working space (unlike the "Header & Footer" context toolbar in old Atlantis). The new context toolbars never hide the "standard" (non-context) toolbars/commands (unlike in the MS Word Ribbon UI).

2. All the commands of the new toolbars are grouped into categories out of the box, without any customization. This makes finding a required command easier.

3. If the Atlantis window is wide enough, all the command categories are always in view. You do no need to switch tabs (like in the Ribbon UI) to access a required command.
1: On my 1080p screen, the whole new UI is visible at all times, even when I make the window more narrow. So I'm not sure what small screens we are talking about where that wouldn't be the case.

2 & 3: Are you saying these contextual commands are ALL available commands, or all commands you decided to contextualize? That could be a big difference.

In summary, it appears to me that all you are saying above is that the menu won't be customizable. Which was one of my complaints.
4. A bigger icon means a more distinctive icon. It is very important when you have hundreds of buttons. At this point, Atlantis has 300+ "iconic" button commands. It is impossible to have tiny distinctive icons for such an amount of commands. This is why many smaller icons on the Word Ribbon are accompanied with text labels.
Let's leave the icons aside for a minute,* or let's imagine they are the right size and easy to oversee (I could get used to those). They are still only accessible for the most part by the menus having to unfold with delays. If an icon does appear on the bar by default (not hidden) then clicking it will unfold the menu it's in. This is going to be a constant nuisance. When I click on things in Windows or programs, I do so wanting to see and know where the icon is, and have direct access because it makes me more productive and faster. That is why, even though the old toolbars were outdated looking, they were customizable and some of them could be hidden if used less. Yet you went for no customization and taking away the ability to have only some (vertically thin) toolbars of choice. So the solution to "it is impossible to have tiny distinctive icons for such an amount of commands" is to have customizable menus, not to force everything into the UI and necessitate (un)folding menus and their delays (and have no customization even in those).

*EDIT: I take that back. I find the icons unclear. They need to be more abstract, so the focus of the eye is on the function. For example, the columns button, it is all faded with colors and not clear. I find the icon set confusing.
patr
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Post by patr »

1. The new GUI is context oriented. There are about 15 context toolbars offered depending on the document selection and other factors. The new context toolbars never reduce the document working space (unlike the "Header & Footer" context toolbar in old Atlantis). The new context toolbars never hide the "standard" (non-context) toolbars/commands (unlike in the MS Word Ribbon UI).

2. All the commands of the new toolbars are grouped into categories out of the box, without any customization. This makes finding a required command easier.

3. If the Atlantis window is wide enough, all the command categories are always in view. You do no need to switch tabs (like in the Ribbon UI) to access a required command.
1: On my 1080p screen, the whole new UI is visible at all times, even when I make the window more narrow. So I'm not sure what small screens we are talking about where that wouldn't be the case.

2 & 3: Are you saying these contextual commands are ALL available commands, or all commands you decided to contextualize? That could be a big difference.

In summary, it appears to me that all you are saying above is that the menu won't be customizable. Which was one of my complaints.
4. A bigger icon means a more distinctive icon. It is very important when you have hundreds of buttons. At this point, Atlantis has 300+ "iconic" button commands. It is impossible to have tiny distinctive icons for such an amount of commands. This is why many smaller icons on the Word Ribbon are accompanied with text labels.
Let's leave the icons aside for a minute, or let's imagine they are the right size and easy to oversee (I could get used to those). They are still only accessible for the most part by the menus having to unfold with delays. If an icon does appear on the bar by default (not hidden) then clicking it will unfold the menu it's in. This is going to be a constant nuisance. When I click on things in Windows or programs, I do so wanting to see and know where the icon is, and have direct access because it makes me more productive and faster. That is why, even though the old toolbars were outdated looking, they were customizable and some of them could be hidden if used less. Yet you went for no customization and taking away the ability to have only some (vertically thin) toolbars of choice. So the solution to "it is impossible to have tiny distinctive icons for such an amount of commands" is to have customizable menus, not to force everything into the UI and necessitate (un)folding menus and their delays (and have no customization even in those).
Breew
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New GUI

Post by Breew »

OK
I have worked daily with the new GUI.
I have to give it a full Thumbs DOWN!
It has slowed me down and made my mistakes on what icon i am choosing go way up. Even after a week its not gotten better. This take on a ribbon interface is better then MS but its still a ribbon. To me its just hard to use. It doesn't bring anything new but seems like a 'ME TOO' interface, just a bit different and not quiet what one is used to. Grouping them together helps but still slows one down as now the usual icons that people tend to know from so MANY other programs arnt used but one has to learn all new placement/function of that icon is a pain. It feels like your changing this to say , were new wow whiz bang gee..
Please go back to the original 2.06 interface, but offer different sizes. I know the WinX design is 'modern' but and this is a big but, People don't like it in general, I certainly don't. IF Atlantis had this interface when I found how good Atlantis was I would NOT have bought it. One of the major reasons I bought Atlantis was the interface was clean simple and WORKED fast.
My problem is One, arrangement and not being able to at least put then in a group where I want. Two, if i want other functions i have to click first on an icon to make the group open then click on the hidden functions that are now popped out, so now its a 2 or 3 click , vice a 1 or 2 click.. like ALL ribbon interfaces it takes 1 to 3 clicks more to do all most everything and that slows one down.. I am downgrading to 2.06 to get my productivity back.
Would rather see ODT and some formats included into Atlantis, Would also like to see some basic math ability added to tables. Substance vice Bling.
I know you put a lot into this and its not being received well. This new interface feels like lets make it look modern, However the ribbon interface isn't the way to go for rapid productive.
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Post by admin »

Most probably the toolbar customization will be available in version 3.1. Before that, there will be a few more minor releases (3.0.x).
VJF
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Post by VJF »

As a occupational doctor (niet praktiserend), I have to say: one of the most annoying and destructive things for peoples health is: not being able to manage his own environment, work, etc..
The difference between AWP2 and AWP3 is that AWP3 behaves like a prison.

That's why I still choose for AWP2.
I don't need 300 choises; I only need 40. Which I can manage.

BTW I don't like the icons, because they don't make anything clearer.

(cf Wp5 and WP6 and later. WP5 was an absolute winner!)
Vincent van Gool, Amsterdam
mmryther
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Post by mmryther »

Sorry, but I HATE the new interface. The "hide" feature may help some, but I really don't want an all or nothing view. I format ebooks for a living and need constant access to the pull-down menu for styles, among other things. Yes, I know hovering brings everything back up, but not only is that not convenient, it's annoying to have all those little pictures popping in an out of view.

Would like to see customization options offered in the near future, or (asking much here, I know), the ability to have a "classic" menu view. The whole reason I moved from Word to Atlantis was because if wasn't as cluttered. Now it's worse than Word. At least in my opinion.
lynneconnolly
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Wish list

Post by lynneconnolly »

I'm so sorry, but I have to agree. I appreciate the work done on the new GUI, and I did download and try it, but I can't work with it. So I went back. Don't incorporate both GUIs, but maybe offer them both. That will keep the code neat.

A quick wishlist:
1. A choice between the old GUI and the new.
2. Customizable ribbons, menus and toolbars.
3. A Quick Access Toolbar, fully customizable.
4. Track Changes and the ability to add notes and comments.
5. ODT compatibility.
6. A grammar checker.

There is so much to love about this word processor, but everybody who uses it needs something slightly different, which is why customization is so important.
And because I don't want this to be all bad, I want to add that you get so much right. The sidebar is fantastic. The capitalization feature is excellent. I bow down before your word frequency feature, it really is great, and I can customize it to pick out the words I know I shouldn't be using. The neatness and the speed compared to Word. And the tabs, oh, the tabs are amazing.
So thank you for all those.
Lynne Connolly
rolande
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Post by rolande »

I am yet one more who only took 30 seconds to see that I lost my beloved,
super-customized toolbar/interface, which I couldn't find a way to get back,
and so I am yet one more who reverted back to 2.0.6.0.

I am yet one more who says -- I truly respect and appreciate the Atlantis devs'
creative abilities, and the 'need/desire' to continuously improve,

and I am yet one more who wants to speak softly with all due praises,
and not merely bitch, moan, whine, and complain.

Yet, I am one more for whom this new interface absolutely,
positively does NOT work -- for me -- no matter how much I desire it to.

I am yet one more who has full access to 'pirated' softwares from every vendor,
savvy enough to run it all in safe sandboxed environments --

yet I choose to vote w/ my $$ to purcha$e and $upport exceptional softwares --

and at the top of my list are:

Atlantis
Ant Download Manager
Directory Opus
Internet Download Manager
Sandboxie

all of which are freely available in pirated forums (fora).

My point -- I want Atlantis Document to succeed and prosper,
and I've 'convinced' multiple fellow 'pirates' to vote with their $$ also -
and they have, by purchasing Atlantis --

and this is even in Filesharing Forums devoted to piracy!

So please, dear Atlantis admins and devs --
if you literally count the # of Likes vs. Dislikes in this thread,
we are your customer base, we are the source of your purcha$e$,
and we are asking you very kindly -

PLEASE at least give us the CHOICE to keep the "old",
which does NOT = 'broken' or 'obsolete'.

We WANT to keep voting with our $$ --

heck, I will gladly pay again for each Major upgrade -
I do so for dOPus and IDM - which don't offer Lifetime subs.

Thank you very much for your time
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