What kind of “errors” did you exactly “correct”? How did you correct them? If you press the Del key to remove extra blank paragraphs, obviously these extra blank paragraphs and the pilcrow symbols within them will have vanished when you switch on the display of non-printing characters.
In the above document excerpt, there are 2 blank paragraphs containing only a pilcrow symbol. These have been created by pressing the Enter key and leaving the paragraphs AS IS, without typing any textual part.
Adding/deleting lines when opening document
Bible document
Teacher, I have scrolled through Genesis, saved the file, reopened it. I have done that several times. I do not see any inappropriate blank lines except in one case where there were two together, but I think you did that deliberately to keep a Chapter Number from falling at the bottom of a column.
More about all of this later, but I do not think that the file is misbehaving.
Blank lines are really not the modern way of formatting a document. Instead you use paragraph styles that specify space above or below a particular kind of paragraph. I played around with two or three styles for the Book of Genesis. I will send you an example of a page later.
More about all of this later, but I do not think that the file is misbehaving.
Blank lines are really not the modern way of formatting a document. Instead you use paragraph styles that specify space above or below a particular kind of paragraph. I played around with two or three styles for the Book of Genesis. I will send you an example of a page later.
Roland,
Yes, I inserted a line there to cause the next chapter to start at the top of the next page. I don't know how else to do it.
I have noticed that the extra and deleted lines have not occurred in B'ereshiyth (Genesis) the last few times I have closed and reopened the file. They are occurring in the Psalms.
Yes, I inserted a line there to cause the next chapter to start at the top of the next page. I don't know how else to do it.
I have noticed that the extra and deleted lines have not occurred in B'ereshiyth (Genesis) the last few times I have closed and reopened the file. They are occurring in the Psalms.
Let’s take the above excerpt as an example.
Let’s assume that “Psalms” is associated with a Heading style, the Heading 1 style for example. Like all styles, that Heading 1 style has specific paragraph properties. These paragraph properties include Spacing Before and Spacing After. If, for example, you give a value of 12pts to Spacing Before for that paragraph style, the “Psalms” heading will automatically be displayed with a vertical spacing of 12pts after the previous paragraph. Of course, you can adjust these 12pts to suit your own preferences.
This is how you put a space between chapters without hitting "Enter".
You won’t need to delete extra empty paragraphs (lines) if you don’t create them in the first place by hitting “Enter”. Atlantis never creates such empty paragraphs automatically.
Let’s assume that “Psalms” is associated with a Heading style, the Heading 1 style for example. Like all styles, that Heading 1 style has specific paragraph properties. These paragraph properties include Spacing Before and Spacing After. If, for example, you give a value of 12pts to Spacing Before for that paragraph style, the “Psalms” heading will automatically be displayed with a vertical spacing of 12pts after the previous paragraph. Of course, you can adjust these 12pts to suit your own preferences.
This is how you put a space between chapters without hitting "Enter".
You won’t need to delete extra empty paragraphs (lines) if you don’t create them in the first place by hitting “Enter”. Atlantis never creates such empty paragraphs automatically.
Atlantis is treating each verse as a paragraph because each verse ends with a paragraph end mark (a pilcrow symbol).
(Vertical) spacing between paragraph lines is controlled through your choice of “Line Spacing” for the paragraphs.
(Vertical) spacing between paragraphs is controlled through the values assigned to “Spacing Before” and “Spacing After” for the paragraphs.
You should adjust the values assigned to “Line Spacing” and “Spacing Before/After” so that the verses display the way you want them to be displayed.
It would be preferable to use a dedicated style for the verses. A “Verses” style for example. With appropriate values for “Line Spacing” and “Spacing Before/After”.
(Vertical) spacing between paragraph lines is controlled through your choice of “Line Spacing” for the paragraphs.
(Vertical) spacing between paragraphs is controlled through the values assigned to “Spacing Before” and “Spacing After” for the paragraphs.
You should adjust the values assigned to “Line Spacing” and “Spacing Before/After” so that the verses display the way you want them to be displayed.
It would be preferable to use a dedicated style for the verses. A “Verses” style for example. With appropriate values for “Line Spacing” and “Spacing Before/After”.
Most likely you did not check the “Use wildcards” option in the Find/Replace dialog...Using the Find/Replace function it does not find <<^p.
I know that about line spacing, but what I don't see is how to remove the pilcrow from the end of each verse without really screwing up. How would Atlantis recognize the next verse as being independent of the preceding one?
I did go to Atlantis Help Hot Keys and am using them to remove the empty paragraphs at the end of each chapter and book and make the empty ;lines the size needed to keep the document looking good.
So I am learning.
I still do not understand how this has caused the added and deleted lines.
You are right. I did not check Wildcards.
I did go to Atlantis Help Hot Keys and am using them to remove the empty paragraphs at the end of each chapter and book and make the empty ;lines the size needed to keep the document looking good.
So I am learning.
I still do not understand how this has caused the added and deleted lines.
You are right. I did not check Wildcards.
The pilcrow at the end of each verse should not be removed. It marks the end of each verse as a paragraph.
What you should avoid is pilcrow symbols on their own with no associated text.
In your excerpt above, the pilcrow symbol located above the “Psalms” heading is not associated with any text. It marks an empty paragraph. This creates vertical spacing of sorts. But it is preferable to associate an appropriate Spacing Before property to the style associated with the “Psalms” heading. You won’t need to press the Enter key to create vertical spacing then.
What you should avoid is pilcrow symbols on their own with no associated text.
In your excerpt above, the pilcrow symbol located above the “Psalms” heading is not associated with any text. It marks an empty paragraph. This creates vertical spacing of sorts. But it is preferable to associate an appropriate Spacing Before property to the style associated with the “Psalms” heading. You won’t need to press the Enter key to create vertical spacing then.
I understand all of that too.
I just downloaded an article written by a professional from the internet and every paragraph is separated by a pilcrow (empty paragraph). So I am not alone in the use of the Enter key to make a new paragraph. It works.
So I still don't understand what all this has to do with the problem I have.
I just downloaded an article written by a professional from the internet and every paragraph is separated by a pilcrow (empty paragraph). So I am not alone in the use of the Enter key to make a new paragraph. It works.
So I still don't understand what all this has to do with the problem I have.
You do as you please, but the general recommendation to word processor users is to use styles consistently and to avoid creating vertical spacing through the Enter key and the insertion of blank paragraphs.
And when all is said and done, no matter what you say or believe, Atlantis never creates empty paragraphs (standalone pilcrow symbols) automatically.
If you end up with what you call extra lines (which are actually empty paragraphs), you cannot lay the blame at Atlantis’s door. You, or someone using your computer, must be hitting the Enter key unnecessarily and maybe inadvertently.
Note that empty paragraphs can also be pasted if they are part of the source text. But Atlantis does not paste anything automatically. You have to do the pasting yourself.
And when all is said and done, no matter what you say or believe, Atlantis never creates empty paragraphs (standalone pilcrow symbols) automatically.
If you end up with what you call extra lines (which are actually empty paragraphs), you cannot lay the blame at Atlantis’s door. You, or someone using your computer, must be hitting the Enter key unnecessarily and maybe inadvertently.
Note that empty paragraphs can also be pasted if they are part of the source text. But Atlantis does not paste anything automatically. You have to do the pasting yourself.
Robert, I am really trying to understand why this problem occurs. I am the only one who uses this computer and I assure you that I do not inadvertently hit the enter or delete key to produce this problem. It only occurs when I close and reopen the document and the occurrences are really random and not repeatable so far as where in the document they occur. Something is making it happen and it is not me, unless it is the formatting of the document and so far I do not understand how that could do it. The only thing left is the program itself and I have seen no evidence anywhere that it is not the culprit.
Atlantis Support never offered any clue as to what was happening nor did they even acknowledge that I had a problem. The only thing they kept saying was that I had a lot of empty paragraphs in the document without ever saying what an empty paragraph was. Of course I know now, but I still do not see how that could make the problem appear.
I truly and sincerely appreciate the time and effort you have put into this too, and while I have learned a lot about formatting a document, to this point I am no closer to understanding why the problem occurs than when we started.
Atlantis Support never offered any clue as to what was happening nor did they even acknowledge that I had a problem. The only thing they kept saying was that I had a lot of empty paragraphs in the document without ever saying what an empty paragraph was. Of course I know now, but I still do not see how that could make the problem appear.
I truly and sincerely appreciate the time and effort you have put into this too, and while I have learned a lot about formatting a document, to this point I am no closer to understanding why the problem occurs than when we started.
Teacher ...
Look, I spent a few hours last night and this morning looking over the Book of Genesis.
And I have read your posts back and forth with Robert.
It was obvious to me when I was going over your document that you do not use Styles, at least not efficiently.
I am going to send you by email several chapters of Genesis (one file), in which I established Styles for *BIBLE BOOK*, *BIBLE CHAPTER*, and *BIBLE VERSE*. Most of your document is, of course, Bible verses. I did not create any styles for other paragraph types in your document.
With Styles, you only hit ENTER when you need to start a new paragraph. To apply a style, you double-click on a style in the menu (Control Board). The Control Board has an icon that looks like an 'A¶'. Click on that to display the styles.
I changed the base font from 9-point to 10.5-point, but to change it back all you have to do is change the NORMAL style font back to 9-point.
I have been working with these matters for many years. Some advice here:
Set the Bible project aside for a few days and work on a document of about 2-3 pages to learn how to use Styles. You have to learn how to open the Control Board and keep it displayed. You also need to know that the Control Board has various functions, but you should select A¶ (the Styles) and leave the Control Board there.
You can create a new style and modify an existing style by using the icons at the bottom of the Control Panel.
Also, the way that Atlantis handles all of this is much easier than what you have in Microsoft Word or LibreOffice.
I am going to send an email to you with some attached styles. I will include some brief instructions for how to import the styles into your current document.
Look, I spent a few hours last night and this morning looking over the Book of Genesis.
And I have read your posts back and forth with Robert.
It was obvious to me when I was going over your document that you do not use Styles, at least not efficiently.
I am going to send you by email several chapters of Genesis (one file), in which I established Styles for *BIBLE BOOK*, *BIBLE CHAPTER*, and *BIBLE VERSE*. Most of your document is, of course, Bible verses. I did not create any styles for other paragraph types in your document.
With Styles, you only hit ENTER when you need to start a new paragraph. To apply a style, you double-click on a style in the menu (Control Board). The Control Board has an icon that looks like an 'A¶'. Click on that to display the styles.
I changed the base font from 9-point to 10.5-point, but to change it back all you have to do is change the NORMAL style font back to 9-point.
I have been working with these matters for many years. Some advice here:
Set the Bible project aside for a few days and work on a document of about 2-3 pages to learn how to use Styles. You have to learn how to open the Control Board and keep it displayed. You also need to know that the Control Board has various functions, but you should select A¶ (the Styles) and leave the Control Board there.
You can create a new style and modify an existing style by using the icons at the bottom of the Control Panel.
Also, the way that Atlantis handles all of this is much easier than what you have in Microsoft Word or LibreOffice.
I am going to send an email to you with some attached styles. I will include some brief instructions for how to import the styles into your current document.
Believe it or not, you’d have the same “problem” if you used MS Word, LibreOffice Writer, or any other word processor. None of the word processors will add empty paragraphs automatically and surreptitiously as you close then reopen documents.
If you save your document first, then do a wildcard search for “<<^p” (without the quote marks) and press the Find & Select All button, Atlantis will tell you how many empty paragraphs are present in your document.
If you close the document at that point, then reopen it, the same wildcard search should give you exactly the same count of empty paragraphs. Atlantis won’t have added any of its own making.
Note that these searches have to be done from top to bottom of the document.
If you save your document first, then do a wildcard search for “<<^p” (without the quote marks) and press the Find & Select All button, Atlantis will tell you how many empty paragraphs are present in your document.
If you close the document at that point, then reopen it, the same wildcard search should give you exactly the same count of empty paragraphs. Atlantis won’t have added any of its own making.
Note that these searches have to be done from top to bottom of the document.
Styles, etc.
For those who have been following this topic ...
I have sent Teacher a few styles to use. I included the steps for how to import them into his document if he wants to.
I explained about the Control Board and its icons (the ones relevant to the current discussion).
Because I have an upcoming project for the next six weeks or so, I cannot undertake anything else right now, but I will try, at a later date, to write a short tutorial, with graphics and "how to" steps, for using Atlantis and styles and make it available.
I have edited books, academic papers, and screenplays for people. You might be amazed at how many people lack all understanding of the things that we have been talking about.
Anyway, I am through with this particular topic in this thread. Anyone who has questions can send me an email at rolandraystroud@gmail.com.
I have sent Teacher a few styles to use. I included the steps for how to import them into his document if he wants to.
I explained about the Control Board and its icons (the ones relevant to the current discussion).
Because I have an upcoming project for the next six weeks or so, I cannot undertake anything else right now, but I will try, at a later date, to write a short tutorial, with graphics and "how to" steps, for using Atlantis and styles and make it available.
I have edited books, academic papers, and screenplays for people. You might be amazed at how many people lack all understanding of the things that we have been talking about.
Anyway, I am through with this particular topic in this thread. Anyone who has questions can send me an email at rolandraystroud@gmail.com.
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the-silverware
- Posts: 21
- Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2017 9:51 am
Dear Teacher,
I'm not sure I understand your problem so I'm not really trying to intervene here, I'd just like to share one simple consideration from my own experience.
When I used Word, I never really figured out styles. Ever since moving to Atlantis, however, I've realized that styles are a bliss, they are the only proper way to format a long document because they give you real control on how it looks and works. And while Atlantis may have a few shortcomings of his own, it handles formatting really well if you understand how to use it.
Inserting paragraphs just to put in empty lines is a terrible way to format your document and it can truly mess up your layout whenever you change something. In theory, a perfect document should be a single, long block of text without any empty lines and all spacing and paging should be obtained by setting correctly styles and page breaks. Documents formatted in this fashion are by far more clean, efficient and manageable. If you were to remove all formatting from any of my books, you would just see a 500-pages long wall of text without a single empty line.
Whatever your problem is, as others have pointed out, I'm willing to bet it comes from incorrect use of line breaks. While it may be time consuming, I'm sure if you were to remove all hand-applied formatting from your document, take some time to set a few proper styles and apply them to it, you will probably get a perfect result.
All the best
I'm not sure I understand your problem so I'm not really trying to intervene here, I'd just like to share one simple consideration from my own experience.
When I used Word, I never really figured out styles. Ever since moving to Atlantis, however, I've realized that styles are a bliss, they are the only proper way to format a long document because they give you real control on how it looks and works. And while Atlantis may have a few shortcomings of his own, it handles formatting really well if you understand how to use it.
Inserting paragraphs just to put in empty lines is a terrible way to format your document and it can truly mess up your layout whenever you change something. In theory, a perfect document should be a single, long block of text without any empty lines and all spacing and paging should be obtained by setting correctly styles and page breaks. Documents formatted in this fashion are by far more clean, efficient and manageable. If you were to remove all formatting from any of my books, you would just see a 500-pages long wall of text without a single empty line.
Whatever your problem is, as others have pointed out, I'm willing to bet it comes from incorrect use of line breaks. While it may be time consuming, I'm sure if you were to remove all hand-applied formatting from your document, take some time to set a few proper styles and apply them to it, you will probably get a perfect result.
All the best